The Education System

[Morpheus]

*** From the Admin:  I split this thread off from it's parents since it became off-topic, but also very interesting.  You can find the parent thread here ***

think about it...an entry level position on a help desk pays about equal to an entry level teaching position...with a lot higher ceiling...if you were a geek which would you choose?  Duh!  So of course most of the computer teachers are lUsers.

[Edited on 1-13-2004 by ZWarrior]

[JollyRoger]

And, When you work help desk you have all the LUser scared to call you or scared of you.
In school all the teachers are scared of the kids...Hmmm.

[ZWarrior]

I have great respect for teachers, but I also think it hilarious when people get all high and mighty and think that they know it all when in truth they know absolutely NUTTIN'!

Case in point that representitive that email'd the reporter.

[Fraggster]

here at LPS they have admins for the admins and admins for them too and it just keeps going on:rolleyes: its so retarded then they wine they dont have any money:cry:

[JollyRoger]

It's not that I don't respect teacher, well I respect teachers that deserve respect.
My issue is that alot of teachers fear students, and they don't demand respect from their students either. If a teacher commands and demands respect then most of the time the students will give them respect.

And for this poor student he'll have this stupid suspention to look back on and laugh at. The fact that it happend all because the school system was ignorant in the ways of computers  is angering to me. And now they will make a rule about not using net send.

We all complain that the youths of our nation are falling through the cracks, and it is because of the lack of support in schools and at home. The schools are saying that it's the parents fault or they have ADD, or whatnot. But if the schools would stop passing the buck and start teaching and really helping kid then this may not happen. "But the government is cuting funding.":cry: get over it! it is not the government resposablity to pay teachers. Besides a real teacher is not in it for the money (though it help) they are in it for the student. I have seen real teachers in my life. I have also had crummy teachers. About  at home well, I'll save that for another soap box.

I have worked with kid of all ages and have seen some amazing stuff in both directions of good and bad. I have experience with horrible teaching through my schooling career (half of my spelling issue, the other half is me) If you want to hear about the bad side of school just ask I will tell you a story that will make you shutter.

I hated all of school! Everything I know I fetched for myself. The schools placed me in "Sped. Ed" class room and said I amount to nothing. I am a Free Lance Computer Consaultant who can't spell. Who is looking for a real Job but until the I can make a buck or two.

[opiesilver]

If it makes you feel any better, I graduated high school with a 4.0 average. (4.0 being highest possible)  I can't spell either.  I never, in all my education, had a higher grade than a C- in spelling.  It took me 20+ years to be able to type a line without having to use spell check.

I have an average composit on the ACT of 32.5 .   You can break those scores down and notice that I have an composit score of 22 in English/Grammer.  Go figure.

I don't know why it doesn't compute in my brain, but it never has.  I was also placed in special ed.  I spent my 3rd grade year there before they figured out that I perfectly normal, well sort of, and that I couldn't read.  Or so they thought.  I just didn't like to in class and would refuse to do it.  I guess you could say that I was kinda stubborn.  (Shut UP Andy!!)

My daughter who is 7 years old has just spent the last year going through the same thing.  At last the school agreed to have her tested by a real psychologist.  The report came back by saying the she was emotionally normal and that at age seven her IQ was 136, and she scored in the 99.7% range for her age group.  You should have seen the faces of the school administrative staff and her teachers.  It was one of those priceless moments that you will never forget.  Wanna know what kept her from being labled as a genius?  She can't spell to save her life and her hand writting is almost as bad as my own.  I once had one of her teachers tell me that she was going to be nothing in life and that she would always need help.  That was the teacher who put her in special ed and that I had fired from teaching in the Bellevue public school system.

I really dislike and have no respect for teachers who don't put the interest of the kids first.  Then again wasn't it a teacher who said that I would never amount to anything?

[Fraggster]

Originally posted by opiesilver
If it makes you feel any better, I graduated high school with a 4.0 average. (4.0 being highest possible)  I can't spell either.  I never, in all my education, had a higher grade than a C- in spelling.  It took me 20+ years to be able to type a line without having to use spell check.

I have an average composit on the ACT of 32.5 .   You can break those scores down and notice that I have an composit score of 22 in English/Grammer.  Go figure.

I don't know why it doesn't compute in my brain, but it never has.  I was also placed in special ed.  I spent my 3rd grade year there before they figured out that I perfectly normal, well sort of, and that I couldn't read.  Or so they thought.  I just didn't like to in class and would refuse to do it.  I guess you could say that I was kinda stubborn.  (Shut UP Andy!!)

My daughter who is 7 years old has just spent the last year going through the same thing.  At last the school agreed to have her tested by a real psychologist.  The report came back by saying the she was emotionally normal and that at age seven her IQ was 136, and she scored in the 99.7% range for her age group.  You should have seen the faces of the school administrative staff and her teachers.  It was one of those priceless moments that you will never forget.  Wanna know what kept her from being labled as a genius?  She can't spell to save her life and her hand writting is almost as bad as my own.  I once had one of her teachers tell me that she was going to be nothing in life and that she would always need help.  That was the teacher who put her in special ed and that I had fired from teaching in the Bellevue public school system.

I really dislike and have no respect for teachers who don't put the interest of the kids first.  Then again wasn't it a teacher who said that I would never amount to anything?

I had that same problem, in third grade i could easily read like a 8th grader, the only thing is algebra, for the life of me i cant do it:cry:

[Fraggster]

Originally posted by [303]JollyRoger
It's not that I don't respect teacher, well I respect teachers that deserve respect.
My issue is that alot of teachers fear students, and they don't demand respect from their students either. If a teacher commands and demands respect then most of the time the students will give them respect.

And for this poor student he'll have this stupid suspention to look back on and laugh at. The fact that it happend all because the school system was ignorant in the ways of computers  is angering to me. And now they will make a rule about not using net send.

We all complain that the youths of our nation are falling through the cracks, and it is because of the lack of support in schools and at home. The schools are saying that it's the parents fault or they have ADD, or whatnot. But if the schools would stop passing the buck and start teaching and really helping kid then this may not happen. "But the government is cuting funding.":cry: get over it! it is not the government resposablity to pay teachers. Besides a real teacher is not in it for the money (though it help) they are in it for the student. I have seen real teachers in my life. I have also had crummy teachers. About  at home well, I'll save that for another soap box.

I have worked with kid of all ages and have seen some amazing stuff in both directions of good and bad. I have experience with horrible teaching through my schooling career (half of my spelling issue, the other half is me) If you want to hear about the bad side of school just ask I will tell you a story that will make you shutter.

I hated all of school! Everything I know I fetched for myself. The schools placed me in "Sped. Ed" class room and said I amount to nothing. I am a Free Lance Computer Consaultant who can't spell. Who is looking for a real Job but until the I can make a buck or two.

im asking for the story that will make me shudder

[opiesilver]

I was taking Calc 3 while I was a senior in high school, but I still can't spell.

[Edited on 1-10-2004 by opiesilver]

[ZWarrior]

Sorry guys, I was never labled as Special Ed.  I was in the advanced classes, and always had most teachers like me and see my potential.  but then most of my life was in Department of Defense schools around the world.

However, algebra was my worst subject, followed by english.  Never saw the reason or use of diagramming a sentence.

 Now I teach in my church one weekend a month, and spend a week in Tulsa OK teaching kids at a conference every year with Wolvy.  Each one of those kids has shown me that they are special, and there isn't even one that I would say is worthless or without value.  I feel that any of the kids I work with could be a millionaire or the president of the US.  Even the ones that I want to strap into the chairs with a gag on their mouth.  Wolvy knows of whom I speak.

  I do know that there are teachers out there that need a clue, however.

From what everyone here has said  I wonder something though.

Did most everyone here get high results on ACT, SAT, etc?

I ranked in the 95%+ section on the SAT.  Never took the ACT.  And graduacted HS with a 3.72, college with a 3.8.

What about the rest of you?

[JollyRoger]

First of all Z, God Bles you. To hear that come from you is great. to know you see that in children is a Blessing in its self. You are the type of teacher I had twice in my life.

I was Labeled Spec.Ed. Because Of the schools In Papillion, I was taught Phonics in Kindergarten and First Grade. At the time I was told i had a fifth grade reading level. In second grade I swichted from a Catholic School to a Public school in the Papillion Lavista School district. Guess what they did not like that I was taught Phonic since they were teaching "Sight Reading". So with out my parenta consent because they new my parent would've told them where to put it, they regressed my reading untill I could'nt read, I don't know how they did it but they did. then since I could not read and my grade went from all "A" in the first semester to all "F" in the second they lied to my parents and told them that I could'nt adjust that i had ADD and learning disablities. You bet I had Leaning disablities. So Now I a Spec. Ed.
I grad. HS with 3.27
I currently am trying to afford college "$$$.$$"
I never took the ACT or SAT

[Edited on 1-12-2004 by [303]JollyRoger]

[Morpheus]

Well ZW I can relate to you...spent 5 years in DODDS woooohooo those were the days. :cool  From 4th - part of 9th grade.  Then I came to Omaha and went to Bellevue Schools...did great on the ACT got a 34 one year and a 32 the next, if I took the highest scores from each year I would have had a 36.  Don't remember SAT score, but it was pretty hight too.  Graduated with a 3.85.

Now along the lines of the comments above:  First both my parents are substitute teachers.  My mother has been teaching as long as I can remember.  Unfortunately our school system in the US is broken.  There are some great teachers, but it is my opinion that they are few are far between.  It is also my opinion that part of the cause of that fact is the low pay for teachers.

I'm not saying that all schools and all teachers are bad, just that there are a lot of problems with the entire system.  For example we know that people learn in 8 different styles (e.g. kenetic, audible, visual, etc.) however in general we teach to only 2 of those styles in our school system.  This has led to the overdiagnoses of ADD ADHD and the overdosing of ritelin. (don't even get me started on that topic)  

My point was that this is especially true for computer or technology teachers.  The good ones can easily get a job paying significantly more if they go into the industry rather than teaching.  There is an occasional teacher who is a teacher because they want to be, are called to be, and will be a teacher no matter what.  They are a gem...very precious but also very rare.

[Morpheus]

I spoke with my mother about the points made in this thread, and she had some comments.

1)  Our teachers are not empowered to really do their jobs.  They are not allowed to fail students in many circumstances, they are often not allowed to kick students who are disrupting the class out.

2)  Teachers have significantly more "responsibilities" than they once had.  They have to teach their subject, teach character, council students, discipline without means, etc.

3)  They have to do this on a shoe string budget...the average elementary school teacher in Omaha spends $500 of their own money for supplies in their room.  How many of us would do that for work?

4)  They have to educate students who do not want to learn.  That's a lot like pushing a rope, or nailing jello to the wall.  It doesn't work.

5)  Parents are not involved.  This is a major problem.  As a nation we put our children second place.  Yes, there are exceptions.  This is financial as well as time investment.

Overall the entire system needs a major overhaul starting with government policies through to the abolishment of the NEA all the way down to the priority that parents have and that we have as a nation.

[ZWarrior]

Question for our readers that are still in school...

Without turning this into a bashing session, how involved are your parents in your learning process?  I am not just talking about "Did you get your homework done?"  but even taking the time to help you.  Sometimes I get the feeling that the kids I teach on Sundays are only getting that from us and not much happens at home.

[n1c]

Well I have a good friend thats a 15th grader and His mom has never "been there" for him never pushed him to do anything and He is seriously thinking about dropping out and trying for a GED..

I try to help and incurage him but, he doesent listen to me like he would a parent....

He is a real smart but not aplying himself like he should. He has to get at least 9 or so credits to graduate this year and so far this term he is failing almost all his classes.....

I have no Idea what to do, but hopfuly he will make it in life!

[opiesilver]

Here is my story.

High School GPA at graduation 4.14 out of 4.0.  I did a lot of extra work.  My first year in high school was a disaster.  I had a 2.7 GPA that year.  I was doing the typical teenage rebellion thing but I got lucky and got pushed in the right direction by the best teacher I ever had.  I used to never go to class and if I did would never stay awake.  Come to think of it, I still can't stay awake in classes.:lol

I never had any help or direction from home.  My parents could have cared less.  My children will not be raised in the same way.  You can ask Sonic what she does every day after school if you don't believe me.  I don't push her hard but she doesn't get to slack either.

I took both the ACT and SAT.  The ACT was the same score every year, 33.  I scored perfect in everything but English:mad: every time.  I took it agin just before I got out of the Air Force and scored exactly the same again.  The relative score on the SAT was higher than the ACT, but it's been a LONG time and I don't remember what it was.

I went to college and did pretty good the first semester, ok the second, and stayed drunk the entire 2nd year.  Partied myself right out of college and my full scholarship in Mechanical Engineering.  Worked for a year as a fry cook and decided that the only way to better myself and my life was to go military.

The next 8 years I spent doing various things for the government and then got out.  I got my first real job with a company that went belly up, but learned then work politics are extremely important if you want to survive.  I went three months unemployed and nearly bankrupt when God gave me a chance to do even better with my life.  Guess he was just testing my beliefs.  The rest is history.

[Wolverine of Ambush!]

For the longest time, I wanted to be a teacher, I just didn't know what I would teach and where. I remember learning about how much a teacher would make.

I went through school doing the sport, singing, dancing, acting thing. A 'Jack of all trades'.  I was very good in all my classes to the point where I even received a presidential award my 6th grade year. Had high scores...all honor classes...up until my 9th grade year...I was put into honor classes and to be honest...i didn't want to push myself. My mom told me to keep going...but I decided to pull myself out of them . From there, as far as my studies....i coasted.  I did continue in the singing, dancing, and acting. I even auditioned for the United States choir...all those picked were able to sing with Phil Collins.  I was 2 out of the state of Nebraska that won the competition...HOWEVER..i didn't have $2000 to go... bummer!  I had fantastic teachers along the way....  I also had a few that weren't very good.

Personally, I also believe that some people have a heart for it because they see the need and yet there are others that have literally been gifted by God to teach. The people that have the heart for teaching and have the gift are a rare breed.

To see the importance of imparting knowledge for the sole purpose of furthering the student to have a better future than the teacher.  The reward of patiently watching a student as they continually push to understand a thing and then all of a sudden..."BLING" ..they GET IT!.. That reward is worth more than the money, in my opinion.

[Fraggster]

Originally posted by opiesilver
Here is my story.

High School GPA at graduation 4.14 out of 4.0.  I did a lot of extra work.  My first year in high school was a disaster.  I had a 2.7 GPA that year.  I was doing the typical teenage rebellion thing but I got lucky and got pushed in the right direction by the best teacher I ever had.  I used to never go to class and if I did would never stay awake.  Come to think of it, I still can't stay awake in classes.:lol

I never had any help or direction from home.  My parents could have cared less.  My children will not be raised in the same way.  You can ask Sonic what she does every day after school if you don't believe me.  I don't push her hard but she doesn't get to slack either.

I took both the ACT and SAT.  The ACT was the same score every year, 33.  I scored perfect in everything but English:mad: every time.  I took it agin just before I got out of the Air Force and scored exactly the same again.  The relative score on the SAT was higher than the ACT, but it's been a LONG time and I don't remember what it was.

I went to college and did pretty good the first semester, ok the second, and stayed drunk the entire 2nd year.  Partied myself right out of college and my full scholarship in Mechanical Engineering.  Worked for a year as a fry cook and decided that the only way to better myself and my life was to go military.

The next 8 years I spent doing various things for the government and then got out.  I got my first real job with a company that went belly up, but learned then work politics are extremely important if you want to survive.  I went three months unemployed and nearly bankrupt when God gave me a chance to do even better with my life.  Guess he was just testing my beliefs.  The rest is history.

You named your daughter Sonic?:bounce:

[Morpheus]

carefull, she will take off your head

[ZWarrior]

Her handle is the same as the name of her favorite game character... Sonic the Hedgehog.

[opiesilver]

Originally posted by Fraggster

Originally posted by opiesilver
Here is my story.

High School GPA at graduation 4.14 out of 4.0.  I did a lot of extra work.  My first year in high school was a disaster.  I had a 2.7 GPA that year.  I was doing the typical teenage rebellion thing but I got lucky and got pushed in the right direction by the best teacher I ever had.  I used to never go to class and if I did would never stay awake.  Come to think of it, I still can't stay awake in classes.:lol

I never had any help or direction from home.  My parents could have cared less.  My children will not be raised in the same way.  You can ask Sonic what she does every day after school if you don't believe me.  I don't push her hard but she doesn't get to slack either.

I took both the ACT and SAT.  The ACT was the same score every year, 33.  I scored perfect in everything but English:mad: every time.  I took it agin just before I got out of the Air Force and scored exactly the same again.  The relative score on the SAT was higher than the ACT, but it's been a LONG time and I don't remember what it was.

I went to college and did pretty good the first semester, ok the second, and stayed drunk the entire 2nd year.  Partied myself right out of college and my full scholarship in Mechanical Engineering.  Worked for a year as a fry cook and decided that the only way to better myself and my life was to go military.

The next 8 years I spent doing various things for the government and then got out.  I got my first real job with a company that went belly up, but learned then work politics are extremely important if you want to survive.  I went three months unemployed and nearly bankrupt when God gave me a chance to do even better with my life.  Guess he was just testing my beliefs.  The rest is history.

You named your daughter Sonic?:bounce:

She named herself.

[JollyRoger]

Great, I bet that saved you alot of headache time didn't. I mean a kid that can name themself with a goodname, you can't beat that:lol

[Wolverine of Ambush!]

[ZWarrior]

Now if she will just learn NOT to steal my tank when I am fixing it!

[opiesilver]

Better than popping a round in the back of your head!!!:lol

[Edited on 1-18-2004 by opiesilver]