*** Rediscovering the Kingdom ***

[Roadkill]

All the dominion means really is that he gave us free will. We are ulitmately responsible for the care of the earth, but if we destroy it, well that is our problem. Animals are driven by instinct to fit somewhere in the pattern of life, but as humankind we can make choices that might be contrary to perpetuating our own kind. This is a double edged sword as we can accomplish great things, good and bad.

On a side note, I believe God CAN lie. We were created in his image with emotion and free will and so we and He are capable, but He chooses not to. Of course, no one would want to believe in a God that would lie so that is kind of a gimmie.

[Roadkill]

I suppose the bigger question that has plagued man througout the ages is not the inherent nature of dominion, we have pretty much established that, but what he has dominion of. Alexender the Great thought it was the world, the hobo downtown the cardboard box he sleeps in and some maybe their car.

All of these are directly related to ownership and so they are possessive of something that that they do not want destroyed. Some religious followers espouse to the belive that all we have dominion over is our souls and the rest is secondary. So what do we really have dominion over? What as caretakers are we in charge of and what are we entitled to if anything at all?

[Wolverine of Ambush!]

"Perhaps this is why God has never done anything on earth without the cooperation of a human entity and was ultimately the reason for the necessity of His entrance into the human race as a man."

Cooperation of human entity does not have to be physical action. It could be someone praying or asking for God to intervene.

To respond to the reference of Genesis 19. If you look at the prior chapter, perhaps this is where there was some supplication for God to intervene.

Genesis 18:17-21
And the LORD said, Shall I hide from Abraham that thing which I do; Seeing that Abraham shall surely become a great and mighty nation, and all the nations of the earth shall be blessed in him? For I know him, that he will command his children and his household after him, and they shall keep the way of the LORD, to do justice and judgment; that the LORD may bring upon Abraham that which he hath spoken of him. And the LORD said, Because the cry of Sodom and Gomorrah is great, and because their sin is very grievous; I will go down now, and see whether they have done altogether according to the cry of it, which is come unto me; and if not, I will know.

and then after that Abraham is getting involved and asking
Genesis 18:24
Peradventure there be fifty righteous within the city: wilt thou also destroy and not spare the place for the fifty righteous that are therein?

I guess I see it as God going to bring judgement to the cities that were sinning. God has set up what is right and wrong. And they had been doing things that weren't right based upon God's standard. Cries from people within Sodom and Gomorrah had come to God's ears and God was going to check to see if it was being 'cried' to him was true.  However, it is amazing that although God was going to do commence judgement on Sodom and Gomorrah, Abraham started to stand in the gap.

Their dialogue:
Abraham: "Hold on Big Guy in the Sky! What if there were some righteous people there, would you still do it?"

God: "If there are 50 righteous, I won't."

It ended up that the Angels spoke with Lot to get out of the city because it was going to be judged. How many came out?  Possibly 6 at the most(2 sons in law, 2 daughters, wife, and Lot). God Said he would not destroy it if he found 10 righteous. Since he didn't find 10, he got the 6 that were there out and pummeled the cities.

I see it as God hearing the cries/prayers of people saying how bad the people of Sodom were. God was going to check it out. God would have spared the city because another righteous was standing in the gap. Either way God made a way out for those in the city.

Just a thought.

[Roadkill]

Of course God is going to have to have some contact with Man if he wants us to listen. The lessons of Sodom would be lost if he just destroyed the place and didn't say anything. Don't you think that was a lesson on how bad the place was when he had to go find "good" people?Then, knowing that their God saw it as bad and then seeing him destroy a whole city would be even more incentive for the people left to be good people.

Without some interaction with God we just make stuff up, which half of us do anyway. The more believable that interaction is, the more credence it has, hence the Bible. If there is a lesson to be learned or a statement to be made on his power, he must let man know or it is just lost. That is not to say that it is required, I am sure he does plenty without telling anyone. "He guys! That meteor coming to Earth that will wipe out half of Asia, that was me, just so you know."

[Wolverine of Ambush!]

Man was created with a dominion mandate over earth, giving him responsibiility for representing the kingdom government of God on earth. Mankind is heaven's earthly agency for kingdom rulership influence. Mankind is intended to embody the nature of God on earth and serve as His divine representative in the physcial world.

Looking at the above statement, it implies to me that we are to represent the 'kingdom of God'. We are to allow God to influence our environment, through our dominion or rulership, with what the 'kingdom of heaven' is.

A lot of people look at the bible and create their own religion(s) or morals. They pick and choose what they are willing to believe or what seems comfortable to them at any given moment. Then they search around for a 'body' that match to what they believe.

Perhaps in the light of discussing 'kingdom' concepts, lets look at the bible as a document that describes what the Kingdom of God is, and how it was meant to function. Lets look at it as the 'KINGS' decree about what his Kingdom entails.

[ZWarrior]

With regard to Sodom, You will notice that He was on His way to destroy it and mentioned it to Abraham, who then petitioned for the salvation of the cities.  He did this without human intervention other than the request for spareing them.

[Wolverine of Ambush!]

Genesis 18:17-21
"And the LORD said, Shall I hide from Abraham that thing which I do; Seeing that Abraham shall surely become a great and mighty nation, and all the nations of the earth shall be blessed in him? For I know him, that he will command his children and his household after him, and they shall keep the way of the LORD, to do justice and judgment; that the LORD may bring upon Abraham that which he hath spoken of him. And the LORD said, Because the cry of Sodom and Gomorrah is great, and because their sin is very grievous; I will go down now, and see whether they have done altogether according to the cry of it, which is come unto me; and if not, I will know. "

You will notice that God was going there because someone from the cities were crying out to him about the cities and he was going to check to see if what was being 'cried' to him was really happening.


To me, the 'cry' is referencing someone there in the city 'crying' out to God about the unrighteousness that was occurring.
Since Lot's family is the only family referenced of being brought out of the cities, it would lead me to believe they were praying/crying out to GOd because of the unrighteousness.

That being true, man was asking God to intervene in the situation.


It's similar to the whole Pharoah/Moses situation. God heard the cry from his people.

Exodus 3:9-10
9 The Israelites' cry for help has come to Me, and I have also seen the way the Egyptians are oppressing them. 10 Therefore, go. I am sending you to Pharaoh so that you may lead My people, the Israelites, out of Egypt."

IF what Myles Munroe seems to be communicating, as far as God needing a man, questions arise from that story:
1).Why didn't God himself come down and speak with Pharoah himself? (Did he need a mouthpiece?)
2).Why didn't God just set his people free without Moses?

[Boomslang]

You might want to read Paradise Restored by David Chilton I always get more than one Man's thoughts on one subject.

[Wolverine of Ambush!]

i'm reading it right now.